Marylse Vieira ’22
Donna Fay Imadi ’22
Kathryn Querer ’22
Pursuing a career in public interest law can be daunting. For a student deciding to pursue big law, the process is structured through OGI, firm events, and standardized career practices. Contrastingly, for public interest careers, there is great variation among the timelines for applications, potential positions, expectations, workloads, and networking opportunities. On Wednesday, October 30, Virginia Law Women, PILA, and LPS hosted an event called Women in Public Service which gave female students an opportunity to learn how to better navigate the challenging process of considering and applying to public interest jobs.
Two simultaneous panels began at 5:15 p.m., followed by a reception at 6:15 p.m. in the Purcell Reading Room.
About twenty female students, many of whom intend to pursue a public interest career immediately after law school, attended the panel titled “Starting Strong: Beginning Your Career in Public Service.” The panel consisted of four women who are in various public interest-related careers.
After each of the panelists introduced themselves and gave a general overview of their career paths, they were asked a series of questions relating to choosing careers, networking, and advice that they would give to students hoping to follow in their footsteps.
Claire Blumenson ’11, co-founder and Executive Director of School Justice Program (SJP), introduced herself first. SJP is a non-profit that provides legal assistance to older students with disabilities. When asked how current students can network in the public sector, Blumenson advised the panel attendees to reach out to two or three legal organizations each week to set up a 20-minute phone call. Blumenson emphasized that this is a great way to learn about various public interest-related career paths and also make connections with people in the industry. Additionally, Blumenson encouraged students looking to learn more about potential public interest career paths to look to the Equal Justice Works website, which sorts fellows into their areas of practice.
Vivian Kim ’12 spoke next, who spent three years practicing litigation in big law before joining the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia in 2015. Kim has worked exclusively on matters relating to domestic violence in the D.C. Superior Court over the past year. She advised that enthusiasm is the most valuable attribute that a potential summer intern at the U.S. Attorney’s Office can bring to an interview. Passion and enthusiasm for working within the system is essential to success in this career path.
Sarah Buckley ’14 then spoke about her work as a trial attorney in the Defense Section of the Environment and Natural Resources Division (ENRD) at the U.S. Department of Justice. Buckley works predominantly on defensive cases under various environmental statutes. She educated students about the value of a working judicial clerkship, as she felt that her experience clerking gave her the opportunity to narrow her legal interests.
The fourth member of the panel, Cassie Powell, works as a staff attorney at the Legal Aid Justice Center’s JustChildren program. Her interests include public interest and education law, and she currently works representing children in educational matters. In narrowing her career path, Powell emphasized the importance of understanding her personal values, and in shaping her career goals off of these values. For example, finding balance and prioritizing her family has always been of the utmost importance to Powell, so she looked to a career path that would facilitate her pursuit of these personal goals.
For the final ten minutes of the event, the audience had the opportunity to ask questions to the panelists. One student asked about differences in salaries between the public and private sectors, which sparked a lively back-and-forth between the panelists about the tradeoff of salary for career autonomy that accompanies public interest careers. All the panelists ultimately agreed that, while public interest law careers pay significantly less than firm jobs, the personal fulfillment and passion they derive from their careers is well worth a lower salary.
Many students hope to enter into public service at some point during their legal career. However, working at a private firm for the first few years out of law school can be desirable or even necessary to pay off student debt, provide financially for one’s family, and get high-quality legal training. At the Private Pathways to Public Service panel, four UVA Law alumni discussed their paths from the private sector to public service and gave candid and valuable advice for students hoping to follow similar career trajectories.
Panelist Sarah Hall ’05 serves as an attorney in the Division of Enforcement at the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, where she investigates violations of federal securities laws, insider trading, and fraud. Prior to the SEC, Hall was an insurance coverage litigator at Covington & Burling. Though Hall found the training and mentorship she received at the firm valuable, she noted that insurance litigation was not easily transferable to government service. Despite this, Hall was able to make the move to the SEC in through a social connection, demonstrating her point that networking can be key to finding a job in civil service. Because she knew the public sector was her ultimate goal, Hall also signed up for USA Jobs notifications during her first year in big law and had yearly career check-ins with herself. She recommended students interested in making the transition from private to public service do the same.
As a public defender for the Western District of Virginia, panelist Lisa Lorish ’08 represents clients on everything from DUIs and minor possession to capital murder, more often on the appellate stage than at trials. Lorish graduated from the Law School in 2008, at which point she became an associate at Sullivan and Cromwell. In 2011, she joined the Charlottesville office of McGuireWoods as a commercial litigator and worked there until beginning her current role in 2014. Lorish recommended students hoping to go into public service be aware of how easy it can be to succumb to the inertia and “golden handcuffs” of firm practice and be ready to potentially relocate for an opportunity that comes along, as flexibility can be crucial to getting hired.
Representing the prosecutorial side of criminal practice, Kristi O’Malley ’05 is the Deputy Criminal Chief and Chief of the Southern Division at the United States Attorney’s Office for the District of Maryland. O’Malley has been at the USAO for nine years, prior to which she worked at Latham and Watkins. O’Malley suggested that students hoping to eventually enter public service choose a firm with an open system of choosing projects, as to not get “pigeon-holed” into a specific, nontransferable legal area.
The sole panelist employed at a nonprofit, Jennifer Nelson ’11 works as an attorney for the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press and also serves as co-director of UVA Law’s First Amendment Clinic. Before she worked in public service, Nelson was an associate at Gibson Dunn & Crutcher’s Washington D.C. office. Having graduated law school during the recession, she knew beginning at a firm was a reality. Nelson had always been interested in media law. Nelson urged those who know they will leave the private sector to “be realistic, and keep to a budget” and to focus on paying off debt while at the firm.
All the panelists endorsed taking advantage of pro bono opportunities that would give young attorneys substantive legal experience, particularly in the courtroom, and show future employers their continued interest in public service. They also all urged those interested in making the career transition to stay in touch with old classmates and colleagues, emphasizing that networking continues to be a primary way to land jobs in different sectors. Frances Skardon ’22, found the event very informative, explaining that it made her feel “more comfortable in making her career choices.” Despite the significant difference in salary between private and public work, the accomplished attorneys on the panel were glad they made the jump from big law to public service and showed that it entirely possible with some forethought and strategy.
After the panels concluded, students walked over to Purcell Reading Room for a reception accompanied by hors d'oeuvres, drinks, and a speech by Sarah Baker (former Special Assistant to President Obama’s Office of White House Counsel). As a UVA alumna, she delivered an inspiring speech about the path of her career within both the public and private sector. She later inspired the crowd through her message that whichever path one enters first in the legal field, it’s still possible to make a difference whether private or public.
She also discussed her new organization “We The Action"— a digital platform connecting lawyers to pro bono projects across the Nation, which to date, has built out 8,000 volunteer lawyers. The organization is “a launching pad for lawyers looking to make a change or dip their toes into work they haven’t previously considered.”
When elaborating on her decisions out of law school to first join a firm, Baker discussed the tension between her passion to “do good” as the kind of person who thought “she’d save the world” as a kid, with knowing the security and stability that a law firm job would provide. “I knew a law firm would be a safe and stable pay. It was the path of least resistance.”
She later tied in how this work on the private sector was critical to her building skills that would eventually aid her in public service work, “I worked alongside phenomenal people building skills that would help me land my first White House job.”
Baker went on to characterize the stereotypes of those who enter the public sector and private sector as “the folks who work in non-profit are selfless do-gooders who champion the oppressed and have to weave their own clothes…those in private are just cashing checks as they laugh and smoke cigars,” the crowd laughed in amusement.
She then posed a question about all the other lawyers who fall in between. “What about the lawyers working to patent medical devices that will save lives? Which bucket do we put them in? What about the people whose parents paid for law school which makes it easier for them to work at a nonprofit does that make them better than someone who needs to pay off their loans?” These were questions on the mind of those who were in attendance of the event.
When asked about her favorite part of the speech, Jacqueline Foley ’21 said “It was so inspiring to see such a powerful woman. When you see all these powerful women on this panel succeeding at the highest level of public service and government it’s like, I can do that too. It’s like ‘you can’t see what you can’t be.’”
Foley went on to say, “So many feel like public service or private is a dichotomy. But the reality is that it’s such a malleable line. You can start in private to pay off loans and there’s no shame in that, you’re not a bad person. You can always decide to go to public service when it’s right. Different circumstances in your own life or in government when they are hiring are all factors. You don't have to have it figured out all right now.”
As Baker later put it, “The point is we all have different circumstances at different times of our lives, reasons for doing the things we do.” As many law students start pondering questions of the future, considerations of practicality that conflict with our passions may be the guiding force of our decision making.
Baker later said, “so often in law but also everywhere else there are all of these unnecessary lines about doing good in the world and who gets to have the moral authority. She says, “It’s a false choice that pigeon-holes us.” Baker closed her remarks to a roaring round of applause saying, “As I see it, anyone can save the world.”
---
mav3p@virginia.edu
dfi3un@virginia.edu
kmq8vf@virginia.edu